Featured Session: A Conversation With Spotify's New Co-CEO About The Past, Present And Future Of Delivering Creativity To The World

1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:01,020 Unknown: A pretty big deal 2 00:00:02,820 --> 00:00:06,420 20 years. And, you know, in tech, that's not just a long 3 00:00:06,420 --> 00:00:07,800 time, it's a life 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,800 most companies don't really survive by. So 5 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:16,020 today, I want to spend our time sharing a little bit about how 6 00:00:16,020 --> 00:00:20,180 we survive, what we learn, and, most importantly, where we're 7 00:00:20,180 --> 00:00:20,780 going next 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,960 at Spotify, we often talk about mountains that we as a company 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,920 try to climb, and there's this concept in computer science 10 00:00:30,980 --> 00:00:35,720 called a local maximum. So you climb the hill, you get to the 11 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,200 top, and you feel great about yourself. You optimize your 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:40,220 position, right? 13 00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:44,380 But then you look up and you realize that you just got a 14 00:00:44,380 --> 00:00:48,520 small air the real manager, the global maximum, is way over 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:48,820 there. The 16 00:00:50,500 --> 00:00:55,180 problem is that to reach that global maximum, you can't just 17 00:00:55,180 --> 00:00:58,840 keep walking up here. You first have to walk down it, back 18 00:00:59,860 --> 00:01:01,980 into the valley into uncertainty, and 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,100 then you have to start climbing all over. 20 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:09,720 Many companies die because they refuse to walk down that road. 21 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:11,880 They sort of hide that they know. 22 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,340 What if I say today? Because multiple times we were willing 23 00:01:17,580 --> 00:01:19,980 to walk to the edge and jump into the unknown, 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,600 the first mountain was access. 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:30,020 So in 2006 when Spotify started, the competitor wasn't any tech 26 00:01:30,020 --> 00:01:31,880 giant, it was piracy. 27 00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:36,500 I grew up in Sweden, which at the time was basically a pirate 28 00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:36,920 behavior. 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,000 The global record industry was collapsing in such a way that 30 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,680 famously, a UK music industry executive, when he went to 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,400 Sweden and met his Swedish counterpart, he looked at his 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,120 piano, his coconut statement, and he said, That's not a 33 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,740 business, my friend, that's a hobby. 34 00:01:57,940 --> 00:01:59,260 The industry was in shackles, 35 00:02:00,700 --> 00:02:04,140 our founder, Danny Lake, he realized that you couldn't beat 36 00:02:04,140 --> 00:02:05,580 piracy with lawyers. 37 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:08,940 You had to beat it with a better product. 38 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:14,639 Piracy, I've only given people all the world's music for free, 39 00:02:15,059 --> 00:02:17,219 without ads, by the way, and with all my sake. 40 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,180 But piracy set up one big block. It was a terrible user 41 00:02:23,180 --> 00:02:23,780 experience. 42 00:02:24,860 --> 00:02:27,140 You have to search for a torrent. You remember those 43 00:02:27,620 --> 00:02:30,680 wavelengths several minutes, sometimes hours, depending on 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,340 the modem you had, but then when you got it, you might have ended 45 00:02:34,340 --> 00:02:37,160 up with a mislabel track or actually just a computer bar. 46 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:38,480 Happens to me a couple of times. 47 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,060 So in product circles, where I come from, we're going to say 48 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,940 that all truly great products, they need to pull up some sort 49 00:02:45,940 --> 00:02:49,300 of magic, something that was previously considered 50 00:02:49,420 --> 00:02:50,140 inconceivable. 51 00:02:51,580 --> 00:02:54,880 Our magic trick wasn't actually just giving people access to 52 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,220 music. As I said, I already done that. 53 00:02:58,420 --> 00:03:01,060 What we did was still latest 54 00:03:02,260 --> 00:03:05,340 those illusions. Illusion that you have downloaded all the 55 00:03:05,340 --> 00:03:08,040 world's music to your local hard rock so 56 00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:12,480 when you click the track, it's going to play in less than 200 57 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:13,560 milliseconds. 58 00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:18,240 So we essentially took the technology, the peer to peer 59 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,280 technology, the power piracy, and we re engineered it to stay 60 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,920 in the music industry and help artists get paid. 61 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,380 Technology alone is seldom enough about to change the 62 00:03:30,380 --> 00:03:33,560 world. So the other innovation that happened at the same time 63 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:37,940 was a new business model user complete with piracy. Remember, 64 00:03:37,940 --> 00:03:38,780 piracy was free. 65 00:03:40,340 --> 00:03:45,280 This was ads Plus subscription, which we call premium. So by 66 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,060 providing access and technology and an effective business model, 67 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:52,420 we had managed to climb this first mountain, and Spotify was 68 00:03:52,420 --> 00:03:52,960 growing fast. 69 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,100 So there we were. We felt, honestly, pretty good about 70 00:03:57,100 --> 00:03:57,520 ourselves. 71 00:03:59,140 --> 00:04:00,900 We were at the top of the original mountain, 72 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,300 the local maximum. Turned out the 73 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:09,540 company was firing. But then the world changed. The smartphone 74 00:04:09,540 --> 00:04:09,720 run 75 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:14,220 internally. We call what happened next, the gazebo room 76 00:04:15,180 --> 00:04:19,080 in the summer of 2010 our small team was at a 77 00:04:21,779 --> 00:04:22,879 beautiful yellow 78 00:04:26,780 --> 00:04:27,200 Xavier 79 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,260 the party was going to act. 80 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,540 Our business model at the time was based on people using our 81 00:04:35,540 --> 00:04:36,440 three desktop app to 82 00:04:37,460 --> 00:04:41,380 compete with free piracy, loving it, and eventually pay for the 83 00:04:41,380 --> 00:04:43,480 privilege of syncing those files to their phones. 84 00:04:44,980 --> 00:04:48,760 But if you remember Merri meter, MER meters interference report 85 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:53,080 had just come out, and data was irrefutable, smartphones there 86 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,100 were about to outpace PC sales soon, so many users didn't even 87 00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:57,700 have that cost. 88 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,320 And if they skip straight from Pirates of the mobile they hit a 89 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,200 paywall, they would strike. And he went back to piracy. 90 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,320 So our business model was due and 91 00:05:11,460 --> 00:05:15,300 according to Mary Meeker, he had this three to four years doing 92 00:05:15,300 --> 00:05:16,320 that, a completely new 93 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:19,860 one. So we walked down the first 94 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,620 month. We shifted our focus from the Google Desktop space and 95 00:05:24,740 --> 00:05:25,820 went all in on mobile. But 96 00:05:27,260 --> 00:05:31,940 the problem we faced was, how do you give away the exact thing 97 00:05:31,940 --> 00:05:35,840 that you were driving for mobility without just filling 98 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:36,680 your entire business 99 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,100 so something else that is often talked about in tech circles, is 100 00:05:42,460 --> 00:05:43,720 you should follow your users, 101 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,420 look at this data and see what they do. 102 00:05:48,340 --> 00:05:52,120 And it turned out that our mobile premium users, who have 103 00:05:52,420 --> 00:05:55,780 full on demand playback, they were still paying their playlist 104 00:05:55,780 --> 00:05:59,800 in shopping mode about 50% of the time. This gave us an idea. 105 00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:05,280 We thought to ourselves, what if we could give away just the 106 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:06,300 shuffle mode for free? And 107 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:08,640 in 2013 108 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,700 we licensed, built and launched the first mobile app in the App 109 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:17,880 Store where a user could create a playlist of any song they 110 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,380 wanted, put their phone in their pockets and listen to that 111 00:06:21,380 --> 00:06:24,680 playlist. New shuffle mode for free forever. 112 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,300 This makes for device world explode, pulling millions of 113 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:32,120 people out of piracy and into pain for music. 114 00:06:33,380 --> 00:06:37,940 So we have readjusted to first world, and with that, we have 115 00:06:37,940 --> 00:06:39,320 climbed the second month 116 00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:43,960 now, already, as we were scaling that second mountain, the mobile 117 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,620 mountain, another massive shift was happening for the connected 118 00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:50,740 home and an explosion of hardware, the Alexa and the 119 00:06:50,740 --> 00:06:51,580 Google homes, right? 120 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,660 And we realized that having a great mobile app alone wasn't 121 00:06:55,660 --> 00:06:56,320 going to DNI. 122 00:06:57,820 --> 00:07:01,920 So we had to make a contrarian bet on your big league at the 123 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,400 time, conventional wisdom said that you should pick an 124 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,520 ecosystem and then should build a wall garden around it, like 125 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:09,360 Apple did with iOS. 126 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,240 But we went the other way with a protocol called Spotify net. We 127 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:18,840 decided that Spotify should go everywhere, in your car, your 128 00:07:19,620 --> 00:07:24,080 kitchen, your PlayStation, your TV. We chose openness over 129 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:24,440 locking. 130 00:07:26,420 --> 00:07:29,000 The bet was actually very painful, and it took a long time 131 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,880 because we had to convince all the world's hardware 132 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,640 manufacturers to implement our protocol, even though we were a 133 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,360 tiny one series company at the time. But today, that bet 134 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,220 compounds, because we have 2000 different hardware devices, and 135 00:07:42,220 --> 00:07:45,760 users are free to listen to the music on whatever combination of 136 00:07:47,860 --> 00:07:51,640 hardware they want. The next month, the fourth month was a 137 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,480 variant of the follow your users estimate, but this time, still 138 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,840 watching the users. We watched what all developers were doing 139 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,800 with our product. This is generally exemplary strategy, 140 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,700 because these are often early adopters of new behavior, and 141 00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:08,700 they are in a rare position actually build what they want to 142 00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:10,260 see in the world, instead of just waiting 143 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,600 for this exact reason. Sport has always had hack weeks where the 144 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,720 entire company just pauses the usual day to day execution for 145 00:08:19,020 --> 00:08:21,300 broad and deep holding supplementation for the entire 146 00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:25,040 company, just to see what people what people want to do leverage 147 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,900 the brain of 8000 smart people. And time and time again, we had 148 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:32,960 seen our developers packing their podcast into their own 149 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:33,440 Spotify 150 00:08:35,420 --> 00:08:39,080 as a company, we wanted to be more than music, but we weren't 151 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:39,380 sure how. 152 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,940 So we looked at the podcast industry, and you realize 153 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,000 that it was just great content and amazing creators, many of 154 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,760 them having deep conversation, which we felt was the perfect 155 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,640 counter to the short educational media that was going on. But 156 00:08:56,020 --> 00:09:00,180 podcasts have been neglected for years, so we needed that, that 157 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,880 it supported this market with people 158 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:07,800 at the same at the same time. Remember later we also noticed 159 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,000 enterprising book publishers in Germany upload books, kind of 160 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,500 disguised as music albums for but it was a terrible user 161 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:20,480 experience if you skipped, if you were lucky to skip whole 162 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,200 chapter, but it could also play shuttle modes, which is very 163 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:24,440 weird. 164 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,540 What was focused was that, despite the more experience, you 165 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:30,800 just put the power in this case. 166 00:09:32,180 --> 00:09:34,700 So actually last on the inside look at this data, the product 167 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:36,680 opportunities were pretty obvious. They were right there 168 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,140 in front of us. But we have to think about 169 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,660 how for both of these. The conventional wisdom at the time 170 00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:47,620 told us and everyone else to get a separate app for podcasts and 171 00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:50,500 another one for those. That was just the way things were done. 172 00:09:51,460 --> 00:09:53,980 Remember the there's an app for that commercial. 173 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,920 But we asked ourselves, why should the user? 174 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,660 Have to adapt to that format by switching software. Shouldn't 175 00:10:03,660 --> 00:10:05,220 the software adapt to the user instead? 176 00:10:06,780 --> 00:10:10,680 So you decided to instead build an adaptive user experience, one 177 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:14,100 app with the interface dynamically shifted. It 178 00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:18,900 was a massive technical challenge that it allowed 179 00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:21,980 creators from from music and podcasts and book to cross 180 00:10:21,980 --> 00:10:25,940 pollinate audiences, and over time, hundreds of millions of 181 00:10:25,940 --> 00:10:27,500 users embrace proving us right. 182 00:10:28,580 --> 00:10:31,880 And of course, today, we aren't just a music company, we're an 183 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,020 audio company, and people are listening more than ever. So now 184 00:10:36,380 --> 00:10:40,900 we really thought we were at the peak, but it turned out that the 185 00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:45,820 tallest mountain we've ever faced was vitals, generative AI. 186 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:52,300 Now there's a lot of noise, a lot of breathless uptakes, but 187 00:10:52,300 --> 00:10:54,940 as a technologist, here's the framework that I use. 188 00:10:56,380 --> 00:10:59,980 As I mentioned before, new technology is such a disruptive 189 00:10:59,980 --> 00:11:03,420 on its own, significant disruption happens when new 190 00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:07,920 technologies enable you asymmetric business models. So 191 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,220 supported by didn't disrupt downloads just because of loaded 192 00:11:11,220 --> 00:11:14,460 business streaming, as I said, we disrupted them because we 193 00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:18,180 also introduced the ad supported subscription model. Similarly, 194 00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:22,400 it was a business model so Uber Airbnb that disrupted their 195 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,920 spectrum industries, not just the technology alone. And 196 00:11:26,420 --> 00:11:29,540 if you look at the consumer space, we believe that the 197 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:33,560 dominant business model will continue to be ads to a 198 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:34,220 subscription. 199 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,840 In fact, you can already see the big AI labs adopting exactly 200 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:39,320 this model. 201 00:11:40,460 --> 00:11:43,780 So this puts qualified in an outstanding position, because we 202 00:11:43,780 --> 00:11:46,660 already have the exact right business for this world. 203 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,480 But from a product perspective, we actually think everything is 204 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:53,080 going to change. 205 00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:58,060 User expectations of what software and services can and 206 00:11:58,060 --> 00:12:01,740 students should do for them are rapidly evolving for all of you 207 00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:04,500 on shore sitting there to chat GPT or progress, 208 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,100 let me give you the real, deep impact. 209 00:12:09,660 --> 00:12:12,480 If you look at the history of the internet, Spotify started in 210 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,180 what we call the era of curation. Right users were 211 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,300 organizing their friends and the tracks and their social networks 212 00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:22,280 of credit. And then we'll move to recommendation, but the 213 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,900 algorithms did that work for you, 214 00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:29,540 and now we are entering age of generation where the consumer 215 00:12:29,660 --> 00:12:31,580 participates in a much bigger way. Most 216 00:12:33,140 --> 00:12:36,620 consumer products today, they still operate sort of like old 217 00:12:36,620 --> 00:12:40,040 school broadband, and I'm getting a technical guy when it 218 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,120 comes to user input. So in old school broadband, you have lots 219 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,360 of data on the downlink, sending the user videos and songs and 220 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,200 feeds, but very narrow bandwidth on the uplink, so just a few 221 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,240 swipes from the user click or something. 222 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:57,700 So for companies like Spotify, we mostly have to guess what you 223 00:12:57,700 --> 00:13:01,140 want to hear based on whether you, for example, skip the fact 224 00:13:01,860 --> 00:13:05,280 then you think about that, did you skip it because you hate it 225 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,840 or because you love it? But you're at the gym and jazz isn't 226 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,260 the right song. The algorithm is just a skip. It's very hard to 227 00:13:13,260 --> 00:13:14,820 interpret. It all looks the same. 228 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,880 Generative AI changes this. 229 00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:22,220 You cannot communicate back to the platform in rich natural 230 00:13:22,220 --> 00:13:26,780 language, in English, you can tell services which you actually 231 00:13:26,780 --> 00:13:27,740 want and what 232 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:31,700 we think that the world will move away from these sort of 233 00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:34,100 past and single player experiences, these one way 234 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:37,100 platforms where users just receive and receive and receive, 235 00:13:38,060 --> 00:13:42,400 to fully interact multiplayer platforms, this is where users 236 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,060 will participate, interact with friends, artists and creators, 237 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,460 and enjoy much more control than they have. 238 00:13:50,020 --> 00:13:53,380 So for our next mountain, we're building the world's first truly 239 00:13:53,380 --> 00:13:56,980 intelligent agentic media platform, one that you can 240 00:13:56,980 --> 00:14:00,040 literally talk, steer and control 241 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,620 one way the algorithm works for you, instead of the other way 242 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:04,920 around. 243 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,080 We started this actually some time ago with the ai dj. Give me 244 00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:13,140 your personalized radios, and you can ask for whatever you 245 00:14:13,140 --> 00:14:18,480 want. I'm going for a run. Give me an EDM playlist with big 246 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,620 drops at 160 ppms to match my rankings, 247 00:14:23,060 --> 00:14:26,660 and then, recently, with tools like prompted playlist, you can 248 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:30,020 literally write your own algorithm for playlist and then 249 00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:32,480 schedule that to update daily or weekly. 250 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,960 So if you ever wanted playlist that, for example, takes all the 251 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,280 music training on Tiktok consistence of your taste and 252 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,040 then removes any track that you've already listened to. You 253 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,980 can right now just go in and write that sentence. 254 00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:52,180 Are you tired of this? Fortified paintings is your favorite 255 00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:55,180 shaman, just because it was for the last three years? I know I 256 00:14:55,180 --> 00:14:58,000 do sometimes. Just tell you about the room to avoid it. 257 00:14:58,780 --> 00:14:59,800 Avoid my main Shaman. 258 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,080 This is the power of computers actually understanding English 259 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:05,940 that they can finally understand here we 260 00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:10,740 think sports is uniquely positioned. The client does not 261 00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:12,780 and make this work for reality. 262 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,820 Because while llms, large language models are a key 263 00:15:17,820 --> 00:15:22,160 ingredient to making these possible general, avalanche are 264 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:22,640 not enough, 265 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:27,620 because llms are trained on facts. They know the capital of 266 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:28,340 Texas, 267 00:15:29,540 --> 00:15:30,020 Dallas, right? 268 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,440 But taste is not a fact. It's an opinion. If 269 00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:40,660 you ask a model for workout reason, for example, there is no 270 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:44,140 canonical answer for someone in New York, it might be hip hop. 271 00:15:44,140 --> 00:15:49,240 For someone in Western Europe, it's often again and Korean, a 272 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,280 lot of Scandinavians, it's dead now. 273 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,560 You need billions of constantly updated data points across 274 00:15:56,620 --> 00:16:00,780 amazonism users that do human curation to be able to map 275 00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:05,400 language to music in a deep and personal way. This is the data 276 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,280 set that sport has been building for over a decade. 277 00:16:10,740 --> 00:16:13,740 But I also want to touch on the artist side of all of this 278 00:16:13,740 --> 00:16:13,980 change, 279 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,020 because there's a lot of fear, and it is completely 280 00:16:19,140 --> 00:16:19,920 understandable. 281 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,060 AI is a tool, no doubt, a very powerful one, and like any tool, 282 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,540 it can be used in both really good and really bad ways. 283 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,940 As an example, in the early 2010s people weren't convinced 284 00:16:34,940 --> 00:16:38,720 that computers could be used to make music at all. But then it 285 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,320 came from Sweden, named she used this lab or to change music 286 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:41,620 forever, 287 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,960 but music has never just been about the tools used to make it. 288 00:16:47,740 --> 00:16:49,060 Music is identity. 289 00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:53,980 When a teenager buys the t shirt at a concert, they aren't just 290 00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:57,220 buying clothing. They're buying something that tells the world 291 00:16:57,220 --> 00:16:58,780 who they are, what you belong 292 00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:03,840 to. Ai cannot manufacture what it feels like to stand in a 293 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,660 crowd of people who love an artist just the way you do. 294 00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:06,840 These 295 00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:10,740 moments of human connection, they transcend technology 296 00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:11,760 uncertainty. 297 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,940 I firmly believe that any more generating content through human 298 00:17:17,940 --> 00:17:23,000 connection actually becomes more valuable, not less. And I'm not 299 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,480 just making this up. We already see this play out in the more 300 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,000 than one and a half billion dollars worth of consultators 301 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,800 that we saw. It's just growing 302 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:35,120 in world of AI and personalization. Live events 303 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,420 like come on we're at right now are bigger than they ever been, 304 00:17:38,780 --> 00:17:39,860 and they continue to grow. 305 00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:46,300 But we also believe that AI can create a lot of value for 306 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:50,440 artists and the industry, and our job as Spotify is to ensure 307 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,180 that the economics reflect that value, 308 00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:55,960 whether it's musicians and songwriters making original 309 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,500 music or making letting fans remix and interact with their 310 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:03,240 sitting IP. We're working with the music industry to make sure 311 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,340 the right compensation frameworks are in place. 312 00:18:06,540 --> 00:18:09,960 We solve this with viruses, and we are going to solve it with 313 00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:10,080 AI, 314 00:18:11,940 --> 00:18:16,740 because at the end of the day, scholars mission is to deliver 315 00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:17,640 creativity to the 316 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,860 world, one note, one voice, one idea at a time. 317 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,480 That's our commitment, and we believe that we're still in the 318 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:27,740 early days of doing just that. 319 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,080 Okay, so now you understand our journey. I'm excited to give you 320 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,140 a first look at one of our next steps, Facebook. 321 00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:41,080 This new feature gives you, the user, a comprehensive look at 322 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:46,360 just how exactly Spotify AI models your mistake across music 323 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:50,920 podcast modules we think you are and more importantly, it helps 324 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,720 you edit it directly. 325 00:18:53,740 --> 00:18:57,340 Here are some real examples from internal users. One said, 326 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,080 finally, I think that Spotify to just ignore those two artists 327 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,020 that my kids always play, they used to ruin all my 328 00:19:04,020 --> 00:19:04,800 recommendations. 329 00:19:09,180 --> 00:19:12,840 Another example. These are new examples. When I was young, I 330 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,480 used to be very big on possibilities, but after a lot 331 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,200 of it, I just told Spotify to start putting a classical shelf 332 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,160 on my homepage, which in turn made me start to lose weight. 333 00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:27,440 We're watching this and pay that in New Zealand soon. But if 334 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,680 you're a Spotify Premium user here today, scan the QR code 335 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:31,100 behind me 336 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:37,760 accesses. It's going to be very good. So 20 years have told us 337 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,140 that every time we left the comfort of the local maximum, we 338 00:19:41,140 --> 00:19:44,980 took a jump, made another climb. The view from the New Beat was 339 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,760 even better, but not just for Spotify, but for every creative 340 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,820 industry that we built, every listener, every time. 341 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,600 Thank you for joining me at the base camp of something new, 342 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,740 and now I'm excited and privileged to invite lady Wilson 343 00:19:59,740 --> 00:19:59,920 and. 344 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,720 Stage for conversation on the many exciting things happening. 345 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:04,200 All right, set 346 00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:15,900 up notes. Maybe you 347 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:20,420 be welcome. 348 00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:28,940 All right, let's take a seat. 349 00:20:32,660 --> 00:20:33,620 Yes, perfect. 350 00:20:39,860 --> 00:20:40,360 Thank you, sir. 351 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,420 All right, I'm very excited for this discussion, but before we 352 00:20:46,420 --> 00:20:50,080 get into it, I just want to mention a couple of sentences on 353 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,860 each of you. So lady, you have nearly 10 million monthly active 354 00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:58,000 users on Spotify. You have multiple number 100 hits. You 355 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,920 want their CMAs ACM, 356 00:21:01,180 --> 00:21:05,400 pretty much done it all in usage. But in addition to 357 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,080 singing, and by the way, my life is a 358 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,300 big fan, in addition to that, though, to sing it, you're also 359 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:15,780 fulfill an entrepreneur, and you partner with native brands like 360 00:21:15,780 --> 00:21:18,000 Wrangler, who owns multiple businesses of your own, 361 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,220 including your own fashion jewelry lines. And if I 362 00:21:22,220 --> 00:21:23,900 understand correctly, thank you for 363 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:30,860 coming, 364 00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:35,660 David, you're a founding member of the code team at Google. We 365 00:21:35,660 --> 00:21:39,920 started 2004 he let us solve the climate cooperation in 2013 I 366 00:21:39,980 --> 00:21:43,960 think, and in 2016 he launched a production board which holds 367 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,540 investments across tech, including agriculture, 368 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,340 decompensation. You're the co founder and CEO of a genetics 369 00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:53,020 and you follow that, but 370 00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:58,240 I'm very happy about it, which consistently ranks as the top 371 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,140 business and tech podcast. So welcome. Thank you. Thank you 372 00:22:01,140 --> 00:22:03,720 for not making a political category podcast. 373 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,160 All right, let's get into it, ladies, 374 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,660 starting with you, Southwest is really about the intersection of 375 00:22:12,660 --> 00:22:16,200 culture and tech and people who live and work in a world where 376 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,300 ideas and artists travel around the world instantly. And being 377 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:23,240 here in Boston, I don't think anyone is surprised that counter 378 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,560 music talks to the charts here. But all of you may not know is 379 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,680 that counter music is one of the absolute fastest growing summers 380 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,640 globally, and it's become hugely popular in markets from the UK 381 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,320 to Australia, where you just back from, our data shows that 382 00:22:39,380 --> 00:22:40,360 four by four by you Yes. 383 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,940 So I would love to hear how you think 384 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,320 about building an audience 385 00:22:51,460 --> 00:22:51,940 in 2026 386 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,140 and beyond, yeah, 387 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,080 change and changing every single day. 388 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,660 But for me, it is just connected as much as I possibly can 389 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:13,140 with my touring, with 390 00:23:14,220 --> 00:23:19,680 just, I mean, whether it's releasing music touring, I put 391 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,380 out a documentary here in April that's going to be on Netflix. I 392 00:23:24,380 --> 00:23:26,900 think that's going to be a good way for me to really stay 393 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,260 connected with the fans that I've made, but also get to know 394 00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,100 some new ones. And we're also just always looking at the beta. 395 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,220 We're just trying to see what's working, what's not working. And 396 00:23:37,220 --> 00:23:41,440 for me, it has always been about that just family interaction be 397 00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:46,420 submitted correctly to them. And so whether that's face to face 398 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,520 or to the camera, that seems to be the thing that works for me. 399 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,600 So it's just about connecting as I as much as I possibly can. And 400 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,060 you know, cutting through a lot of the ones can I ask you, 401 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,640 I told you when we spoke backstage here that country 402 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,420 music is big globally. But more than that, almost Texas country 403 00:24:06,420 --> 00:24:09,420 is big globally. Land man is one of the top stories in Sweden. 404 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,640 What is it about country music 405 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,900 and Texas? It is growing and blows my mind, because every 406 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:20,420 single opportunity I get to 407 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:25,760 go across the pond to play music. People are singing every 408 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,520 word. They're wearing their cowboy hats. We're gonna get you 409 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,300 a cowboy hat and some cowboy boots too, and you too. 410 00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:35,900 We're here in Austin. That's what I'm doing. 411 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,460 But I really do think that. Well, I'm partial, but I think 412 00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:45,040 country music is a very special genre. I think that it takes you 413 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,220 home when you are nowhere near it. I think it's about that 414 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,220 storytelling. I think everybody's a good sucker for a 415 00:24:51,220 --> 00:24:56,260 good story, and if you're not, I'm confused, but I think that's 416 00:24:56,260 --> 00:24:57,400 what it is. It's just 417 00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,920 people are craving often. 418 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,760 Authenticity, and I think country music offers that 419 00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:06,420 authenticity is key. My kids told 420 00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:10,560 me it's not as well. 421 00:25:12,660 --> 00:25:13,920 All right, David 422 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,540 Allen is one of the most popular podcasts in the world. The show 423 00:25:18,540 --> 00:25:21,680 name is a hat tip to the poker games and one conversation that 424 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,520 you and your colleagues were already having, right? And on 425 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,000 this show, there's a lot of time spent on Eva's interests, but 426 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,460 you still have a very quickly growing global audience. Were 427 00:25:31,460 --> 00:25:34,580 you surprised by that? And was that your intention? 428 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,300 Well, we didn't have much of an intention. They were very 429 00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:40,960 randomized, random situation that the podcast came out of 430 00:25:41,020 --> 00:25:46,540 covid on Zoom, I would say the original conversations were all 431 00:25:46,540 --> 00:25:50,200 about the tech industry, business markets, what's going 432 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,800 on? How are we all reacting to and responding to the change in 433 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,880 the world around us? How crazy is this? Shit was kind of like a 434 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,800 pretty common theme during covid. And you know, what should 435 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,280 we do? What could we do? So I think for anyone working in the 436 00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:08,700 tech industry or starting a company or investing around the 437 00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:12,900 world, it became, you know, something to listen to. Lot of 438 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,540 people described it, hold it like being a fly on the wall. 439 00:26:15,780 --> 00:26:18,540 There were people just literally having a conversation about 440 00:26:18,540 --> 00:26:22,160 these topics. And I think that's kind of why it resonated 441 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,900 globally. There are investors, startup founders, builders, 442 00:26:27,140 --> 00:26:27,560 Texas, 443 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,380 anything that inspired you with this? I don't know if there was 444 00:26:33,380 --> 00:26:33,920 any other such 445 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,880 the concept of this recording in general conversation. Did you 446 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:38,360 find the wall? 447 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,320 No, that wasn't the design of the show. I think there wasn't 448 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,020 much of the design, because the one guy wanted to be interviewed 449 00:26:47,020 --> 00:26:49,300 by the other guy every week. That was the original show 450 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:52,180 concept. And then they kept talking about finding time to go 451 00:26:52,180 --> 00:26:54,940 in the studio to do that show, and they couldn't find the time 452 00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:57,400 to go into the studio do that show. And then covid hit. They 453 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,740 were all stuck at home, and they're like, Hey, let's get on 454 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,580 Zoom and talk to each other and put that out as the show. And 455 00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:06,240 they asked me to join for the first episode, so I did, talking 456 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,380 about covid and tech science and what was going on. And so that's 457 00:27:10,380 --> 00:27:12,300 how the show started. So there was no design, and 458 00:27:13,620 --> 00:27:15,840 I think that may be why it worked, because it's also like 459 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,620 there was no real reason that we would care whether it succeeded 460 00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:24,440 or not, and so we just maybe didn't give a shit enough, and 461 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,680 you just do what comes natural and what feels right, and then 462 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,600 it just kind of worked. 463 00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:37,700 So for both of you, AI is obviously transforming creative 464 00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:41,080 industries right now, opening up huge possibilities, but also 465 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,160 raising some big concerns. 466 00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:46,540 So I'd love to hear about what you do. This means New York 467 00:27:46,540 --> 00:27:49,480 Times as some artists and creative if you saw you, Megan, 468 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,440 you mentioned backstage that you and your team are building your 469 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,800 own AI, impersonation, Detective detection system. Talk to us a 470 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,240 little bit about that for sure, sure. Well, I'll just first say 471 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,360 that I think that technology has 472 00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:08,640 has done a lot for the music business. I think that it has 473 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,600 always pushed creativity forward. But I will say it is a 474 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,800 scary world we live in, because you just never know how they're 475 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,320 going to use your face or your voice. And the truth is, like 476 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,840 we're just talking about that genuine connection, it's really 477 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,540 important for me to feel like anytime my fans see something 478 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,840 that they feel like it is really like evils, and saying it to 479 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,880 them, I want them to feel like that they can trust me. 480 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,760 I have partnered with a company called Looney that is constantly 481 00:28:38,060 --> 00:28:43,540 working on pulling down these imposters or these social media 482 00:28:43,540 --> 00:28:46,420 posts, whatever it is that is not coming from me or my team, 483 00:28:46,420 --> 00:28:50,200 and that is a full time job at this point, and it is really, 484 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,260 really crazy. And the scary thing is, is even when your 485 00:28:53,260 --> 00:28:55,840 family members think it's actually you, you're like, Oh 486 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,600 Lord, they're getting really good at this. But, but, yeah, we 487 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,120 have, we have found a team of people who are taking serious 488 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,240 just like you are. And I just want to keep that, that 489 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:07,680 relationship with my fans, 490 00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:11,700 the way that, the way that I wanted to be genuine and pure 491 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,580 and authentic you're coming into this. But I suspect that every 492 00:29:14,580 --> 00:29:17,160 creator is going to want something like this, and maybe 493 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,180 eventually every human, as we go into this world where it's 494 00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:25,700 always understand, it's probably 495 00:29:27,020 --> 00:29:29,660 to understand, if you can actually trust David, you're the 496 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,100 president, 497 00:29:32,660 --> 00:29:36,080 it's a very broad topic, but if you just pick what the documents 498 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:36,980 are you most excited 499 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:41,980 about? So have you transition in AI can be sort of like an up 500 00:29:41,980 --> 00:29:44,500 leveling of creative potential. I'll just start with that 501 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:47,440 statement. There's certainly risks associated with 502 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,700 impersonation and theft of IP and whatnot, which I think will 503 00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:54,880 get worked out as it was YouTube and Spotify in the early days. 504 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:55,960 Then we'll get there. 505 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,920 But I got my first Macintosh computer where six. 506 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,820 Years old, the Macintosh original, and I was on that 507 00:30:02,820 --> 00:30:06,120 computer learning how to use MAC Paint. And eventually I got to 508 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,840 go to Photoshop. I was doing graphic design at the age of 11 509 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,900 or 12 as a service to people. I got making money, making 510 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:16,500 business cards and flyers and stuff. And so I was early on 511 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:20,120 when Kai's power tools came out. Does anyone remember that? No 512 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,920 one in this room that is so depressing. 513 00:30:25,220 --> 00:30:25,460 Okay, 514 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,360 there's a couple, but Adobe Photoshop, right? You can put 515 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,900 like images on and edit them and manipulate them, and power tools 516 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:36,020 have these filters. And you would do a filter to the image, 517 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,440 and it was like, Holy crap. You could make the image sharper, 518 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,560 you could make it blur. You could do all. You can create 519 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,440 depth. You can do all these things that people were like, 520 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,100 That's cheating. Like, that's not fair. Like, how can you do 521 00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:51,520 that? You're the cameraman supposed to do that, or the guy 522 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,560 who learned how paintbrush is the one who should be doing 523 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,700 that. And so there's always and then later on, I did, like, you 524 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,660 know, made techno music. Don't make fun of me for it. But, you 525 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,420 know, you and I talked about, I used to have, like, a Juno 106, 526 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,500 TV 303, and then I got all the synthetic sequencers on my 527 00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:10,500 computer, and there were all these plugins that came out, and 528 00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:13,440 the plugins became, I mean, just like a music industry today, it 529 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,840 was a question of, like, Are you cheating? Like, is that really 530 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,960 fair? And what ended up happening is creators, whether 531 00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:22,760 graphic creators or music creators found extraordinary 532 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,240 ways to leverage these new tools to create new soundscapes, new 533 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,220 visual features, new types of film. Today in Hollywood, a lot 534 00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:35,240 of the production houses are and I've spent some time with some 535 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,060 of these companies, they're using like second units to do 536 00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:40,960 fully AI rendered like second units, unit. So the cost comes 537 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,440 down, but the stuff you can do goes up by, like, 100x because 538 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,680 you couldn't, you didn't have the budget to go and, like, 539 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,640 recreate a trading floor from the 1970s and now you can do an 540 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,040 AI in a couple of minutes. And so the creator, the director, 541 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,320 has this ability to make a landscape that they otherwise 542 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,560 wouldn't have the ability to make. And so I think that 543 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,100 there's a leveling up that's happening in terms of what 544 00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:04,680 creators can do, and we're just starting to see people tinker 545 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,440 with these things, and the stuff that I've seen, especially in 546 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,560 video, and I'm sure over time, we'll see more and more happen 547 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,800 in music. It's just incredible. So I think that the second big 548 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,060 wave that's probably still to come is non linear content. And 549 00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:21,560 what I mean by that is, like today, whether it's a video or 550 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,220 music track, you just press play and it goes linearly from 551 00:32:25,220 --> 00:32:28,760 beginning to end. I think that creators are going to unlock 552 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,900 like in video games, the ability to maybe have some difference in 553 00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:36,260 how that track plays or how that movie plays out. Whether it's 554 00:32:36,260 --> 00:32:38,720 like, click and choose your own adventure, which I think may be 555 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,500 a little annoying to consumers, or it's like, what if you could 556 00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:44,560 listen to your favorite house music track and make it a little 557 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,680 bit faster, little bit cooler, a little bit shorter, add some 558 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,280 vocals, add some jazz, but the Creator, not the user, but the 559 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,280 Creator can set all those parameters. So now the creator 560 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,500 is almost like coming up with all these ideas, but in 561 00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:59,200 different dimensions of how they can create music. And if you 562 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,620 don't have to have one final track, and you can say, hey, we 563 00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:04,080 could make a couple different ways that this track can play 564 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,660 out, and then the actual playback for the consumer, 565 00:33:06,660 --> 00:33:09,720 whether it's in a video or in music, could be a little bit 566 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,300 different. And so I think we're likely going to see like, 567 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,420 progressive creators come up with incredible ways of using 568 00:33:15,420 --> 00:33:17,940 these tools and these capabilities, where people are 569 00:33:17,940 --> 00:33:20,120 going to be watching movies differently. Like, hey, we all 570 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,060 watch the same show, but I saw a little different view that you 571 00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:25,280 saw, like I saw from the bad guys view you saw from the good 572 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,160 guys view, or we all track a little bit differently. So 573 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,160 that's the sort of stuff that I think would be really cool with 574 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,180 the AI unlocked sort of different experience. So as the 575 00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:35,540 creator 576 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,900 and control search on these guys, 577 00:33:40,340 --> 00:33:40,600 I creator, 578 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:44,260 if there was a framework 579 00:33:45,340 --> 00:33:47,740 for your fans to be able to work with the music, where 580 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,500 everyone was greatly compensated, 581 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,360 because it is your music, 582 00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:00,040 for sure, I think it's fun to be creative, but, you know, I 583 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:02,340 think, Like, that's why I started doing this to begin 584 00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:02,640 with. So 585 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,120 I would love for my fans to be able to do something, if it's 586 00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:12,420 fair for the person who wrote it, proposed it, created it. I'm 587 00:34:12,420 --> 00:34:15,180 down for that. I want everybody to be able to like color outside 588 00:34:15,180 --> 00:34:17,460 of the lines and try new things. So like I said, if people are 589 00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:19,440 compensated for it, Hell yeah. Hell yeah. 590 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,620 Well, okay, are you guys doing anything like this? 591 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,360 It's fun. Well, I'm looking at my comments. 592 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,980 There is this one feature working on that touches on this 593 00:34:36,980 --> 00:34:40,280 that absolutely love, which people have been asking for 594 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,880 forever. So you know, in movies, you have like, I am the game. 595 00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:45,940 You can go in and see, like, who's the director, who's 596 00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:49,600 producer. You're really nerd up in music, that hasn't often been 597 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,180 the case. You often know who the performer is, but most people 598 00:34:52,180 --> 00:34:56,620 have no idea who wrote it or produced it. So this is leaked a 599 00:34:56,620 --> 00:34:57,220 little bit 600 00:34:58,420 --> 00:34:59,920 already, but we are. We're rolling out this. 601 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,200 This feature called Song DNA, where we meticulously go through 602 00:35:04,260 --> 00:35:06,900 to understand exactly who played 603 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,540 a role on each song. You can see that song writer 604 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,240 actually 605 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,080 like that sample is actually from this original song. So 606 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:24,920 we'll see, I think, 607 00:35:26,780 --> 00:35:29,000 and I think it's really important that there are all 608 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,120 these creators around the performance that there are 609 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:32,360 that's 610 00:35:33,860 --> 00:35:35,000 something I'm very excited. 611 00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:39,260 It's really odd. 612 00:35:40,780 --> 00:35:40,960 That. 613 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,200 Okay, all 614 00:35:49,060 --> 00:35:50,440 right, another question for 615 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:51,940 both of you, 616 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:57,220 the CEO, if 617 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,660 environment. 618 00:36:03,180 --> 00:36:06,900 Now for both of you as the old my partner, Alex and I have 619 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,020 stepped into the roles of those deals. We're spending a lot of 620 00:36:10,020 --> 00:36:13,440 time talking with artists, with podcast creators and with 621 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:13,680 authors. 622 00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:17,580 I love the books. I'm very excited about this all around 623 00:36:17,580 --> 00:36:20,180 the world, and one of my favorite questions is, what can 624 00:36:20,180 --> 00:36:21,440 be building for you as a creator 625 00:36:22,820 --> 00:36:24,020 or as a user, by the way, yeah, well, 626 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,100 into speaking and as a creator and a user, I 627 00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:31,520 think would be cool to build something based off of demons 628 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,620 that day, you know? Because, I mean, the truth 629 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,180 is that 630 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,300 we're all going through something at different times, 631 00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:46,240 and it'd be really cool for my fans to feel like that day that 632 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:48,400 they were going through something hard. I was speaking 633 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,560 directly to them, that they didn't have to, like, listen 634 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,140 through the whole album to figure out, like, Which song is 635 00:36:53,140 --> 00:36:55,900 resonating with them for that specific thing that they're 636 00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:56,860 going through. 637 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,620 So very cool. So you were like, That's interesting. You can So, 638 00:37:01,620 --> 00:37:03,240 I mean, you could go into a Spotify and 639 00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:11,100 type in a little down here from your fans, because there are so 640 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,600 many of them in some sort of aggregated way. Yes, I think 641 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,600 that would be cool too, to know how your fans are 642 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:22,460 feeling, too. 643 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,620 I mean, so many different people from so many walks of life have 644 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,980 like, it's crazy the story that people and telling me, but one 645 00:37:33,980 --> 00:37:36,920 of the three lines for me that I've noticed this evening in 646 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,660 meet and greets is they are willing to share like where they 647 00:37:40,660 --> 00:37:41,260 are in life and 648 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,760 where they are going through and so I don't know, just be able 649 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,460 to, like, cater to that even more, to even just have, like, a 650 00:37:48,460 --> 00:37:52,480 deeper connection like that with your family. Because my goal 651 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,660 always is for them to feel like I'm speaking to them in their 652 00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:58,420 story, in their life. But if they're going through something, 653 00:37:58,420 --> 00:37:59,920 and I'm singing a song about, 654 00:38:01,180 --> 00:38:03,780 let's have a part, you know? I mean, they might not, that 655 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:05,880 might not be the thing 656 00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:09,540 that helps them get through 657 00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,640 it, the musician, you only get data on how many plays there 658 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,460 were and what the average listen kind of was, that's 659 00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:20,040 that's all the only feedback you get. 660 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:23,240 It's true. Yeah, you do get 661 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:28,100 statistics about who is listening, ages and where they 662 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,860 listen. You can find your tours, but you're completely right. You 663 00:38:30,860 --> 00:38:34,520 have no idea how they're feeling and looking at AI. I just talked 664 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,000 about how AI allows people to speak in English at scale. That 665 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,120 is a really cool thing, to actually understand more about 666 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,840 their demographic. Well, a couple years ago, there was a 667 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,360 guy who took all of our episodes, like, right when AI 668 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,880 was kind of getting going, and he ingested them all, and then 669 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,240 he created, like an AI character with each of the four of us, and 670 00:38:55,420 --> 00:38:57,820 then it was like, each of the four of us said a bunch of 671 00:38:57,820 --> 00:39:00,400 stuff, and it was so bullshit, like that sounded awful. He's 672 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,600 gotten so much better now. But then someone else made a chat 673 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,880 interface where you could ask each of those questions they 674 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,700 could answer, as if it was trained on the data from our 675 00:39:08,700 --> 00:39:11,520 show. And it was like, Wait, that's actually kind of 676 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,700 interesting. Like, very often I'm trying to find something 677 00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:17,580 that I heard on another show, like Friedman organ or 678 00:39:17,580 --> 00:39:21,140 something. I'm like, Where was that? And so to find what was 679 00:39:21,140 --> 00:39:25,160 said by guests, or find really guests and protection was very 680 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,000 hard. Today I got to go, like to YouTube and do transcript 681 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,340 search. Or nowadays, I can do Gemini, and Gemini like, search 682 00:39:31,340 --> 00:39:35,480 through all the transcript data for me and pull stuff out. But I 683 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,360 think every podcaster should have the opportunity to create 684 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,820 like Lex chat, or Joe chat, or something where you as a user 685 00:39:42,820 --> 00:39:45,700 who's a big fan of the podcast, like, the thing I realized about 686 00:39:45,700 --> 00:39:49,480 podcasting is it's people want to, like, get really developed. 687 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,060 They come to these live events. Like, we've been on a live event 688 00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:55,780 with like, 1000s of people in LA every year. We've got one here 689 00:39:55,780 --> 00:39:58,000 tomorrow night. And they want to, like, absorb more the 690 00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,920 content, get into the community. Applicant. 691 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,960 Engage, engage, engage, because that particular content vertical 692 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,300 is something they're really into. So to have a chat 693 00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:09,360 interface where I could ask Joe Rogan questions like, Hey, Who 694 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,940 was your favorite guest? Which was the craziest shit you ever 695 00:40:11,940 --> 00:40:14,340 heard. You know, tell me about that guy that talked about, like 696 00:40:14,340 --> 00:40:16,860 there were pyramids under the ocean and we found them. Like, 697 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,920 who was that guy? I would love to be able to have that dialog 698 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,300 with my podcast that I love. I think that would be a really 699 00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:25,820 cool feature. You guys can train it off on the transcript data, 700 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,100 and theoretically, you could actually make the audio sound 701 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:31,580 like the host. And I could have a dialog through the Spotify app 702 00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:34,520 and all of these that creates more engagement for you guys, 703 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,040 and all of the I should be your kind of 704 00:40:39,380 --> 00:40:41,980 product. So yeah, anyway, because I would love to chat 705 00:40:41,980 --> 00:40:44,560 with Lex Friedman and then be like, Hey, tell me about that 706 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:46,660 great Hancock interview. 707 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,280 And then our users could just ask David to talk to digital I 708 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,060 got enough of that. 709 00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:57,340 But I do worry about, certainly, this thing of, like, digital 710 00:40:57,340 --> 00:41:00,520 representation. It's gonna happen. It's happening to a 711 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,680 point, and they get it better. They get an opt in. Yeah, people 712 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,200 that I think, I think podcasters are different than these issues. 713 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,720 So podcasters are creating content. They're not creating 714 00:41:10,140 --> 00:41:14,520 these, like, you know, tracks, the songs that are kind of their 715 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,980 product out, but they want to protect the value of the song 716 00:41:16,980 --> 00:41:19,800 and so on. Podcasters more content they're creating, I 717 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,520 think the more engagement they get, the more depth they get. So 718 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,800 there's something about re engaging in that content that 719 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,320 actually brings a lot of value for the podcaster. And it 720 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,020 doesn't need to be pure it doesn't need to be how I said 721 00:41:30,020 --> 00:41:33,920 the thing at the time. I said it per se, but generally, like, the 722 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,720 things I said, like, I'd be fine for AI chat interface. Just be 723 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,800 trained on that and want to answer questions. Interesting 724 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,860 when music is interesting as a content category because it has 725 00:41:44,860 --> 00:41:48,280 so much repeat testing, people listen the same track hundreds, 726 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,580 1000s of times. But in podcasts, you mostly don't the same 727 00:41:51,580 --> 00:41:54,400 episode again. This would be a great value from the back 728 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,220 catalog as well, right? But people do listen to the back 729 00:41:57,220 --> 00:42:01,560 catalog, like acquired Rogan Lex, like some of these are very 730 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,200 timeless episodes, because they're interview shows with 731 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,980 someone on particular topic. And so, like, I mean, you know the 732 00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:11,760 stats on acquire business podcast, once people listen to 733 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,980 an acquired podcast, they go back and listen to the whole 734 00:42:13,980 --> 00:42:16,260 brain library, and they're like, this show's awesome. I wasn't 735 00:42:16,260 --> 00:42:19,740 all of these, and there's a bunch of pods like that. So I 736 00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:21,980 think to have some sort of engagement 737 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:25,700 mechanism around that stuff could 738 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,980 be very cool. Okay, we got some product ideas. My first virus 739 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:32,180 here, amazing 740 00:42:33,980 --> 00:42:37,640 lady, you're not just an artist, you're also founder and investor 741 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,860 of fashion, jewelry and gaming. So we talked about how you think 742 00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:44,500 about your arts career, but how do you think about building a 743 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:46,120 business alongside your music career? 744 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,660 Well, like I said earlier, I just really like to be creative, 745 00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:56,080 and I want to make sure that my parents feel like they've been 746 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,080 they can like that into the work of my music as much as I 747 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,160 possibly can or as much as I want to. And, 748 00:43:03,660 --> 00:43:07,680 you know, I look out at my shows and I'm seeing people who dress 749 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,860 just like me, wearing the bell bottoms in their hats and the 750 00:43:10,860 --> 00:43:12,900 jewelry. And this 751 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,040 is it. Yeah, we should have put you in some Bill 752 00:43:18,540 --> 00:43:19,380 bottoms too. 753 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:27,080 But, yeah, it's just another way for me to connect with my people 754 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,080 and with my fans, and, like I said, for them to be able to, 755 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:35,180 like, live in that world as much as they want to. And it's fun. 756 00:43:35,180 --> 00:43:37,160 You know, when you're all under like, the same roof and you're 757 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,380 like, looking out there and everybody kind of looks like 758 00:43:39,380 --> 00:43:44,080 you, it's a especially like with a little girls and stuff, it 759 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,020 makes me feel like, man, like, I better watch what I do and say, 760 00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:50,020 because I have a lot of little people watching me. But also it, 761 00:43:50,020 --> 00:43:51,580 it gives me this 762 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,560 sense of just like responsibility. To feel like, 763 00:43:56,620 --> 00:44:00,480 okay, I need to be a leader. I need to, like, set an example. 764 00:44:00,780 --> 00:44:02,280 And yeah, it's 765 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,240 a good feeling. It's a good feeling to I feel blessed with 766 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:09,540 like have this platform and be on that stage, and 767 00:44:10,620 --> 00:44:14,280 I just Yeah, I want people to feel like they know me. I want 768 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:16,860 to feel like I 769 00:44:19,020 --> 00:44:19,320 know them. 770 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,520 But we spoke backstage 771 00:44:30,740 --> 00:44:34,940 for so long, I did not have any opportunity at all. I've been at 772 00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:36,080 this a long time. 773 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,960 I've been living in Asheville for 15 years, and the first 10 774 00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:45,520 I should have packed up, I went home, but I just couldn't. This 775 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,860 is the only thing I know how to do. It's the only thing I want 776 00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:53,080 to do is just to tell stories. And yeah, I feel like the last 777 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:57,040 few years have just been such a blessing to me and my life and 778 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,260 my team, like I have finally found the right people to 779 00:44:59,260 --> 00:44:59,920 surround myself. 780 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,560 With that understand my vision and don't want to change me for 781 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,260 anything, and if anything, they just want to elevate me and get 782 00:45:07,260 --> 00:45:11,340 me to that next step. And it's getting really fun now. So now 783 00:45:11,340 --> 00:45:14,640 we have all these opportunities. There's only so many hours in 784 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,580 the day, but I do want to take them all. You know, if it feels 785 00:45:17,580 --> 00:45:20,040 right and it feels like it's going to move the needle, then 786 00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:22,460 let's do it. You told me you're from this 787 00:45:24,380 --> 00:45:25,220 tiny, tiny town 170 788 00:45:27,380 --> 00:45:28,580 and you moved 789 00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:33,260 pretty further on. Yes, I did. I'm from 790 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,540 Baskin, Louisiana, 791 00:45:36,740 --> 00:45:37,700 a little town of 170 792 00:45:38,780 --> 00:45:43,180 people. I'm very proud where I come from, but honestly, I 793 00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:47,260 compare. I was telling you this in the room too, that I compare 794 00:45:47,260 --> 00:45:50,800 a lot of what I do to what my dad does. My dad is a farmer, 795 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,540 and he farms corn, wheat, soybeans, oats, and gets up 796 00:45:55,540 --> 00:45:59,320 every day and busts his tail doing it, and he does the same 797 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,400 thing every single day. I mean, it looks a little bit different 798 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,480 for me every day. But, um, you know, at the end of the day, 799 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,600 it's your livelihood, if it's in you, then you just get up and 800 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,980 you do it. A storm could roll through, and you just get up and 801 00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:14,280 do it 802 00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:23,600 anyway. So I call myself a song farmer, amazing. Amazing. David 803 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,180 spoken is a big movement podcast in 2019 and you and your girls 804 00:46:29,180 --> 00:46:31,820 started, as you said, during covid in 2020 805 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,060 Could you talk a little bit to us about the growth and 806 00:46:35,060 --> 00:46:38,420 evolution that you've seen and sort of where you think it's 807 00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:41,920 going next? You mentioned some of the ideas you have. But what 808 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:42,940 do you see podcasting? 809 00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:46,720 Well, podcasting kind of became what blogging used to be. 810 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:48,940 Everyone that had blogs prior to 811 00:46:50,620 --> 00:46:50,800 that, 812 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:52,600 everyone 813 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,440 so in the business world, like, if you've got, 814 00:46:57,580 --> 00:47:00,220 you know, I think one of the problems is a lot of this stuff 815 00:47:00,220 --> 00:47:04,500 got solid, and maybe we're part of this problem as well. But 816 00:47:04,500 --> 00:47:08,160 like people selling shit, like, like, I'm trying to like 817 00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:11,520 people doing podcasts because they're trying to, like, 818 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,220 heighten their profile because they have stuff to sell. I don't 819 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,980 know if that intention really resonates and works. Well, 820 00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:21,080 maybe, maybe we're part of maybe we should be blamed for that as 821 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:21,920 well, I don't know, but 822 00:47:23,060 --> 00:47:25,760 I feel like there's an aspect of that where, like, everyone's got 823 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,540 podcasts now, and the market will sort itself out. People 824 00:47:29,540 --> 00:47:32,120 listen to what they want to listen to and stuff for. So it's 825 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:37,460 very crowded. It's very noisy out there. And I think to some 826 00:47:37,460 --> 00:47:41,260 extent, we're seeing folks step it up, right? So the visual 827 00:47:41,260 --> 00:47:45,880 stuff matters a lot, I think more than people are realizing, 828 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,080 but a lot of the stuff will hold its own as audio. But Chris 829 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,420 Williams said, I don't know if you guys know that this guy is 830 00:47:52,420 --> 00:47:55,600 podcaster. He did anyone see the episode? 831 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,040 They built a set on the same kind of sound stage and set 832 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,680 stage that they use for the Mandalorians, like this LED wall 833 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,500 that, like, wrapped around it's so and they built Interstellar, 834 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,080 like the guy's house with Interstellar, with the trailer 835 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,320 and the driveway. It's freaking insane. I recommend you watch it 836 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,500 on YouTube, just to see what they built. The YouTube thing, 837 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:16,800 I'm so 838 00:48:18,420 --> 00:48:18,660 sorry. 839 00:48:20,580 --> 00:48:20,660 I so 840 00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:29,720 this is why I think the video on Spotify doesn't matter a lot, 841 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,540 because I do think a lot of the folks are differentiating by 842 00:48:32,540 --> 00:48:35,420 improving the quality of the video content. And it's not just 843 00:48:35,420 --> 00:48:38,720 me having a chat and then obviously the podcasts are more 844 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:39,860 creative, like all 845 00:48:40,940 --> 00:48:44,500 the murder crime industry stuff. It's so cool, like it's a 846 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,440 totally different level. It's not just someone sitting at the 847 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,560 table having a conversation. Joe Rogan can hold his own having a 848 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,960 conversation for two hours, and we'll get great content. 849 00:48:54,340 --> 00:48:57,520 But most people cannot. Most people need it. So the good 850 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,380 creator they're gonna need to go to, like murder crime history, 851 00:49:01,380 --> 00:49:04,380 that might be a better format. So I think there's a lot of this 852 00:49:04,380 --> 00:49:06,900 differentiation that's going to start to happen, which, by the 853 00:49:06,900 --> 00:49:09,240 way, will like it fundamentally improve the quality of the 854 00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:11,640 experience that the consumers, the listeners are like, the 855 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,400 viewers are like, this is awesome. Now, like that Matthew 856 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,280 McConaughey episode, visually, it's just like, I don't care 857 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,260 what McConaughey is saying, this is just so cool. Pretty cool. 858 00:49:21,620 --> 00:49:24,920 And ask you, one of the things that I think people like about 859 00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:28,580 listening to you numbers is that you have a positive view of the 860 00:49:28,580 --> 00:49:31,100 future. And there's a lot of stuff here right now, and you're 861 00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:32,240 going to start a podcast. 862 00:49:33,980 --> 00:49:38,180 Well, we'll see. But I do think the thing that troubles me the 863 00:49:38,180 --> 00:49:41,440 most is just kind of how techno pessimistic we are, right? And I 864 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,080 think, like, everyone's just like ai humorism, like AI is the 865 00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:47,260 most unfavorable thing right now in the country. There's some 866 00:49:47,260 --> 00:49:50,680 survey that came out it was like Iran, like Iran is more 867 00:49:50,740 --> 00:49:51,940 favorable than AI. Like, the sort 868 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,580 of thing that happened where AI just became the new like, 869 00:49:57,580 --> 00:49:59,920 whether it was climate change or. 870 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,300 Or whatever, there's always this, like looping threat that 871 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,680 we latch on to. And I think we've had this, like this shift 872 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,580 in our psyche, particularly in the West, meaning the US and 873 00:50:11,580 --> 00:50:16,680 Western Europe, probably since the 1970s like 1969 we landed on 874 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,380 the moon and we had Woodstock that same summer, and I think 875 00:50:19,380 --> 00:50:21,980 that was the summer when we became techno pessimists, where 876 00:50:21,980 --> 00:50:24,380 we were like, worried about chemicals in our water, 877 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,740 radiation killing us. Nuclear energy could burn, melt down and 878 00:50:27,740 --> 00:50:30,920 wipe us. Nuclear bombs are overhead. So we simply became 879 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,220 way more concerned about tech. But if you look at like, how 880 00:50:34,220 --> 00:50:37,580 tech is progressing, human lifespan, human health span, how 881 00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:40,660 many hours people have to work, the number of hours that people 882 00:50:40,660 --> 00:50:43,780 have to work is going down the quality of life. I know a lot of 883 00:50:43,780 --> 00:50:46,300 people are struggling. Still in America, there's a lot of less 884 00:50:46,300 --> 00:50:49,720 behind differences in what's going on, but a lot of people 885 00:50:49,780 --> 00:50:53,020 are moving up the ladder because of the advances in technology. 886 00:50:53,020 --> 00:50:55,480 We all got a freaking super computer in our pocket. There's 887 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,420 just so much that I think we take for granted. And when I 888 00:50:58,420 --> 00:51:02,040 look at the technology that's being developed and is like real 889 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,680 today, and I think about, holy shit, what this is going to do 890 00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,020 tomorrow? Like, we're all going to live forever. We're going to 891 00:51:07,020 --> 00:51:09,480 have free friggin energy. We're going to be in flying cars 892 00:51:09,660 --> 00:51:11,700 moving around the point, like, oh, wait, finally, forever. They 893 00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:14,100 launched yesterday. They got FAA certified yesterday, by the way, 894 00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:16,380 nobody did. So these are the sorts of things that are 895 00:51:16,380 --> 00:51:18,900 happening that I think don't get enough attention. And we spend 896 00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:21,180 all this time thinking about how we're going to die and what's 897 00:51:21,180 --> 00:51:24,020 going to kill us and what's coming next, and we don't talk 898 00:51:24,020 --> 00:51:26,900 enough about how exciting tomorrow is going to be. And so 899 00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:29,300 I want to kind of change the message a little bit and spend 900 00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:31,880 some time on it. And that's kind of why I do this show. It's why 901 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,180 I do and considering doing the pre show, which will just be 902 00:51:35,180 --> 00:51:37,760 focused on the science and tech of tomorrow, and just kind of 903 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:37,940 get 904 00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:42,440 deeply excited about it, that's great. I do think it's 905 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:51,460 important. Everyone can follow along with that future, 906 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,860 especially, for example, in music, but I'm 907 00:51:56,380 --> 00:51:58,900 very positive. I will say one more. I think the fear of 908 00:51:58,900 --> 00:52:01,860 tomorrow is what makes everyone turn against each other, because 909 00:52:01,860 --> 00:52:04,140 as soon as you're about tomorrow, you have a reason to 910 00:52:04,140 --> 00:52:06,420 blame someone around you, and that's why we are all like this 911 00:52:06,780 --> 00:52:09,540 all the time. And I think it's very bad. It's very unhealthy. 912 00:52:09,540 --> 00:52:12,480 Go to a dark place. And so I want to all be optimistic about 913 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,020 tomorrow and be realistic, but be optimistic about tomorrow. 914 00:52:17,820 --> 00:52:19,620 That's why it didn't 915 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:23,180 matter. Okay? I could 916 00:52:25,820 --> 00:52:30,020 keep talking about him forever, but Thank you so much for 917 00:52:30,020 --> 00:52:30,320 coming. 918 00:52:42,500 --> 00:52:42,980 Thank you so 919 00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:27,320 yeah, I Guess you have A better 920 00:54:58,960 --> 00:54:59,320 How about.